Monarez and Houry say that future pandemics ‘keep them up at night’
When asked what keeps them “up at night” by Democratic senator John Hickenlooper, of Colorado, both Dr Monarez and Dr Houry expressed their fears for how the country might respond to any future pandemic.
“I don’t believe that we’ll be prepared,” Monarez said of the next outbreak.
“I’m concerned about the future of CDC and public health in our country,” Houry added. “We are not prepared, not just for pandemics, but for preventing chronic health disease, and we’re going to see kids dying of vaccine-preventable diseases.”
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Updated at 17.13 BST
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Cassidy closes hearing by debunking vaccine misinformation
As he brought the hearing with fired CDC director Susan Monarez, and former public health official Debra Houry to a close, Republican chair Bill Cassidy spoke about his years as a practising physician, specializing in liver issues.
He noted that in Thursday’s vaccine advisory panel meeting, ending the recommendation for the birth dose of the Hepatitis B vaccine is reportedly set for discussion.
“Why should a child be vaccinated for a sexually transmitted disease when they’re at birth? The child passes through the birth canal and is exposed to the same secretions of one would otherwise, and that passage through the birth canal makes that child vulnerable to the virus being transmitted,” Cassidy said. “If that child is infected at birth, more than 90% of them develop chronic, lifelong infection.”
Cassidy summarized the impact of the vaccine on infection rates in the decades following the approval of a birth dose of the Hepatitis B vaccine. “Now, fewer than 20 babies per year get hepatitis B from their mother,” he added. “That is an accomplishment to make America healthy again, and we should stand up and salute the people that made that decision, because there’s people who would otherwise be dead if those mothers were not given that option to have their child vaccinated.”
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Houry says that Kennedy should resign
Dr Debra Houry just said that Robert F Kennedy Jr should resign.
After seeing his Senate finance testimony, and the number of misstatements, seeing what he has asked our scientists to do, and to compromise our integrity, and the children that have died under his watch, I think he should resign.
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Updated at 18.20 BST
And another update on that front. Senator Cassidy has just said that Senator Mullin told reporters that “he was mistaken” in saying that the meeting between secretary Kennedy and Dr Monarez on 25 August was recorded.
“But in case he’s mistaken, that he was mistaken,” Cassidy said, invoking laughter from those in the hearing room. “If there is a recording, it should be released, and would beg the question of what other conversations were recorded.”
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Updated at 18.04 BST
Per my earlier post, where senator Mullin made claims that Monarez was lying about her meeting with Kennedy – where she told him that if he felt she was untrustworthy he could fire her.
Republican senator Bill Cassidy – the committee chair – has called out Mullin’s “implication” that he has a recording of that meeting.
“I will note that if materials have been provided to Senator Mullin, and invoked in official committee business, they’re committee records and all other senators on the committee have the right to see those records,” he said. “This is allegiance to President Trump’s values, and so I ask that that recording be released.”
He added:
I’ll also note that we put in a request for any documents or communications that would bring transparency to the situation. We have not yet received those documents. If a recording does not exist, I asked Senator Mullin to retract his line of questions.
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Updated at 18.00 BST
Monarez and Houry both agree that politics is driving change to vaccine recommendation
When asked by Democratic senator Ed Markey, of Massachusetts, whether Dr Monarez and Dr Houry feel that politics is driving the change to vaccine recommendations, including hepatitis B vaccines, instead of science in children’s health, both former officials agree.
“I’m thankful to Senator Cassidy for really raising hepatitis B via social media,” Houry said of the series of posts by the Republican chair of the committee, which sought to debunk misinformation around testing and the vaccine. “I think there’s a lot of moms that don’t know they have hepatitis that can then transmit it to their baby, and even the mom is hepatitis B negative, we don’t know what the home situation is.”
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Updated at 17.51 BST
Republican senator Markywane Mullin, of Oklahoma, is saying that Monarez is “not being honest” about her recollection of the conversation with secretary Kennedy.
“I tell my kids all the time, you know one thing I want from you. I can deal with any situation we walk into, as long as I know you’re being 100% honest with me,” he said.
Mullin has provided no evidence about how why he feels she is not telling the truth.
“Your personality and your answers aren’t correct,” Mullin said in an exchange with the fired CDC director.
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Republican senators spar over Monarez contacting health committee
In a line of questioning, Republican senator Ashley Moody, of Florida, seemed to suggest that Dr Monarez planned her removal from the CDC.
Moody questioned why Monarez called senator Cassidy – the Republican committee chair – “immediately” about her claims that Kennedy demanded she issue blanket approvals of vaccine recommendations, without seeing scientific evidence.
“I committed during my confirmation process several elements, including integrity, transparency, working with Congress, but she had no advance plan with any colleagues,” Monarez said.
Cassidy also pushed back against his Republican colleague’s insinuation.
It is entirely appropriate for someone with oversight concerns to contact my office, or me, or, frankly, any of us. Upon receiving outreach from Dr Monarez, I contacted both the secretary and the White House to inquire what was happening and to express concerns about what was alleged. As soon as the director was fired, the Help committee began reviewing the situation, as it is our responsibility, and any and all communications with the witnesses was conducted by Help staff in coordination with attorneys.
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Updated at 17.28 BST
Monarez and Houry say that future pandemics ‘keep them up at night’
When asked what keeps them “up at night” by Democratic senator John Hickenlooper, of Colorado, both Dr Monarez and Dr Houry expressed their fears for how the country might respond to any future pandemic.
“I don’t believe that we’ll be prepared,” Monarez said of the next outbreak.
“I’m concerned about the future of CDC and public health in our country,” Houry added. “We are not prepared, not just for pandemics, but for preventing chronic health disease, and we’re going to see kids dying of vaccine-preventable diseases.”
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Updated at 17.13 BST
Monarez is now responding to questions from Republican senator Jim Banks, of Indiana, and says that the “only thing” that has changed in terms of her priorities were the “demands” for Monarez to “compromise” her integrity.
“I still support that we need to make our children healthier,” she said.
Monarez went on to summarize, again, what transpired in that consequential meeting with Kennedy.
“It had been clear that I was not going to fire scientists, that I was not going to pre-commit to pre-approving vaccine recommendations about data and science. I had been very alarmed at the demands, and I had reached out as part of what I understood my obligations to communicate that to this committee. The secretary became aware of that, and in the context of those activities, he told me he could not trust me,” she laid out. “I told him that if he could not trust me, he could fire me.”
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Updated at 17.14 BST
In response to a question from Republican senator Tommy Tuberville, of Alabama, Monarez says she did not refuse to change language on the CDC website that would violate the executive order issued by Donald Trump, for federal agencies to delete references to diversity, equity and inclusion online.
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Kennedy did not express condolences for killed police officer at CDC shooting, Monarez says
After a short break, lawmakers are now back. Democratic senator Maggie Hassan, of New Hampshire, kicked things off by saying that she was “unsure” about whether Monarez would “stand up to Secretary Kennedy”, but went on to thank the former director on her recent actions.
Monarez was visibly upset when she recounted Kennedy’s response after telling him that she needed to consult scientific evidence before making decisions on vaccine recommendations.
“He made another set of assertions associated with CDC that were particularly pointed and particularly hurtful and disparaging. He called, in that context, CDC ‘the most corrupt federal agency in the world’,” Monarez said. “He said that CDC employees were killing children and they don’t care. He said that CDC employees were bought by the pharmaceutical industry. He said CDC forced people to wear masks and social distance like a dictatorship.”
Monarez later said, when asked about his conduct in that meeting, that Kennedy did not express condolences for the death of David Rose, the police officer who was killed during the recent shooting at the CDC, or the two children who died of measles earlier this year.
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Updated at 16.49 BST
One of the more heated exchanges in today’s hearing was between Republican senator Rand Paul, of Kentucky, and Monarez.
As my colleague, Melody Schreiber, notes, Paul falsely claimed that Covid vaccines don’t decrease transmission and don’t reduce hospitalizations or deaths.
Monarez disagreed, and pushed back on the senator’s assertions.
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Dr Houry also detailed the way the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) responded differently to the measles outbreak earlier this year. Houry noted that neither she, nor the center director who oversaw measles, never briefed Kennedy. Typically, it would be a common response to hold a briefing following an outbreak.
Then, Houry said that Kennedy claimed “vaccines had fetal parts”, which required her to “send a note to our leadership team to correct that misinformation”.
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Updated at 16.28 BST
Monarez and Houry both express concern about outcome of upcoming vaccine advisory committee
Both Dr Monarez and Dr Houry both expressed their concerns about the decisions that the vaccine advisory committee meeting tomorrow will make. “I know that the medical community has raised concerns about whether or not, again, they have the commensurate backgrounds to be able to understand the data and the evidence and to evaluate it appropriately,” Monarez said. “I don’t know what will happen, but I certainly will be watching.”
Meanwhile Houry said she had “significant concerns” as the public had not been able to weigh in. “The general vote should have been posted two weeks ago so the public knew what was being discussed,” the former chief medical officer of the CDC said.
Earlier, Houry said that she found out about the new Covid-19 vaccine recommendations from the Food and Drug Administration via social media.
“CDC scientists have still not seen the scientific data or justification for this change – that is not gold standard science,” Houry added.
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Updated at 16.23 BST
Monarez says she was fired for refusing to offer a ‘blanket approval’ of upcoming vaccine recommendations
Earlier Monarez said that Kennedy demanded “blanket approval” of “each and every one of the recommendations” in the upcoming vaccine advisory panel meeting. Monarez claimed that Kennedy said if she couldn’t do that she would need to resign.
“I did not resign, and that is when he told me he had already spoken to the White House about having me removed,” Monarez said.
Monarez went on to push back on Kennedy’s claims that she was “a liar” in his Senate finance committee earlier this month.
When Senator Bernie Sanders asked Monarez why she refused to rubber-stamp vaccine recommendations without seeing them or the evidence behind them, the former CDC director explained that it wasn’t negotiable.
“I refused to do it because I have built a career on scientific integrity, and my worst fear was that I would then be in a position of approving something that would reduce access of life-saving vaccines to children and others who need them,” she said.
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Updated at 16.05 BST
Cassidy just confirmed with Dr Debra Houry – the former chief medical officer – that Thursday’s upcoming vaccine advisory committee is the first in Houry’s 10 years at the CDC where political appointees have set the agenda for the meeting.
Typically, scientists who study inoculations and infectious disease set the agenda. But Houry said that “the senior adviser and HHS counselor worked with our staff and the designated federal official and proposed items.” Both of those roles are political appointees.
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Updated at 16.06 BST